[Wijnand]

Yes they do. The trick is that you actually build an inductor. The more windings you create with the ethernet cable around the ferrite in the same direction the more inductivity you will create. It’s not a shield, but just like with a transformer the inductor will work against the signal, it doesn’t like changes in the signal at all. So actually sine waves are continuous changes in the signal. So the inductor will try to flatten the sine waves, but due to the small amount of windings it will only flatten the spikes that are on the sine waves. Spikes are also changes in the signal. See it as a smoother.

[Wijnand]

Goodmorning Tobias, Yes indeed I’m pretty dialed into this subject. Actually the ethernet was the very last thing that I suspected to be the cause. The list of things that I have tried before I came to the conclusion that it must be the ethernet is very long, the tiniest things sometimes not even related to audio are tried extensively. But also a complete swap of the audio system and setting up a second system are on the list.

I’m positive now it’s the ethernet, because I now know exactly what I can do to solve the problem every time. I even can get the second system dark, when I put it on the same network. Adding noise into the ethernet makes things better when the system is dark. Adding more filters on the powernet or like I have done with the ferrites on the ethernet cabling is making it worse. When adding filters on the powernet then the ethernet system will benefit from this as well, but with the effect that it will sound dark in time.

[Wijnand]

So there seems to be more proof for point 2. A too stable and clean ethernet signal will make the sound quality decrease as well.

I have removed 4 Ferrite cores and I have left only 2 directly between the JCat netcard and the DAC. The sound has cleared up in 30 minutes

[Wijnand]

Wel 24 hours later. It’s the same old story. The sound is dark again. Too dark for a listening session. I have to remove the Ferrite cores, because now the signal has become too clean again. The crystals seem to react to a too clean signal. Without the ferrite cores It seems I have the ultimate balans for what is possible with a network, going over the edge will make the sound collapse in time. Still I like the trick with the ferrite cores. Unfortunately the trick with the extra switch to inject noise is not working now. The ferrites seem to cancel that noise.

[Wijnand]

Yes indeed. It’s actually pretty standard for signal cables. I have thought about small ferrites in the past, but never the bigger cores. Also in the switch transformers are ferrite cores per wire. These also have a filtering quality. Ethernet isolators also make use of these cores. About expensive ethernet cables I also have had several types, but in many cases I liked standard copper cable better.

[Wijnand]

What else do you know about my looks 🦇 🙂

Thanks, you already have helped me with the Ferrite cores. I installed 4 of them. I can hear for sure a more clear sound.

[Wijnand]

I believe you as well 🙂 I have been trying to find someone with the same issue for years. The owners of the other systems which sometimes triple the price range of my system won’t admit it isn’t perfect. Still they say their system sounds better when they switch off the powersupply for 8 hours. Which actually confirms my verdict, they have the same problem in a less dramatic way.

[Wijnand]

Well it’s not so different as with the MUON 🙂

They measured the MUON with the Wavecrest and the measurement showed timing and phase noise. Phase noise actually tells how precise the timing is.

Think about this. A switch works with a 25Mhz clock. The switch is triggered by a rising or falling edge. The more precise the timing that this happens the lower the phase noise actually is. With a Pink Faun Ultra Clock from which the specs are incredibly good Phase noise at 10Hz is -130 dBc / Hz. They also did another trick with the clock to even make it better. They build the clock signal with 3.8V versus 0.4V for an average crystal. When the clock signal is that high the edge will be far more steep as well. This makes the moment that the 0 line is crossed even shorter and the timing even more precise. When a clock like this is built on a switch it can produce a very clean signal.

For what concerns the 25Mhz. I must dive in this as well because I can’t understand how a 1Gbit or 10Gbit stream can be build with a 25Mhz crystal

[Wijnand]

I will dive into it and probably order the Muon Pro. There’s a 30 day money back guarantee.

Still the discussion is not what is better 🙂 I think there’s something else going on with ethernet. After 3 years of extensive testing I dare to say it’s not only about noise.

Think about this situation. An Audio system is connected with a standard Ethernet system and the system produces a decent sound. After this an upgrade with a Sbooster on a switch and another high grade powersupply on the router made the sound really better. Then the Sbooster is replaced by an even better powersupply and again the sound became better. Then a better power cord was connected and again the sound became better, but now after 48 hours the sound became worse. So another power cord is installed and at first there’s better sound and later worse again. Diving into it, switching out weak links by better over and over again made the sound better at first but even more worse later. That is the story 🙂

This story I have auditioned in at least 5 different systems. But most of time with less dramatic result than in mine. After everything I already have tried I’m really afraid it will be the same story with the MUON

 

[Wijnand]

How sure are you on this point, because it also could be the crystals that are in a different situation. I think a Wifi extender is at least as noisy as a computer or router.

I have used Euphony Stylus on my Pink Faun streamer. This player has a sit and relax mode. Which means after you have started the album you would lose control until the album or playlist is finished. This mode disconnects from the ethernet. Even when I played for day’s in this mode through a direct ethernet link, through USB or AES/EBU in all situations I had trouble with dark sound and now it seems crystal sync was the problem. In all situations I made use of the very best power supplies and clocks. In one situation we also tried this with the Metrum Adagio and the Ambre. They went dark in an hour as well.

[Wijnand]

Okay I have a measurement that Jaap Actually did for me. Due to crystal sync my Audio clock was off for about  400Khz.  Instead of 24576 it was running around 24.200 Mhz. This was due to the clock on the ethernet bridge of the BluOs module. I think for ethernet it’s another story. I will try to explain later.

About the Muon. I have this Dlink switch with an ultra clock. When I add it in front of my Dac the sound will change in an extreme way. So very clean, clear with so much power and dynamics. It only takes a second to hear the difference, but after 24 to 48 hours the sound will collapse and most probably due to crystal sync. So I think my switch will at least have a similar effect as the Muon and because of the dual powersupply and fuses I have used. I even would think it will outperform the Muon easely just because it sounds so incredibly good that it’s hard to think anything else could be better 🙂

[Wijnand]

About fibers. They do not work better than copper for sure. They do not block more noise than they cause. And the crystal sync even though fiber seems to take place as well. I have a few hundred meters of fiber cable and several converters left from the last session 🙂

[Wijnand]

About the wifi extender. I believe they work for sure. I know some people that use them as well. But the question is what is the reason they work. I think one does not have to deal with crystal sync, because the signal is clockwise tapping not as strong as a datastream through a cable. Maybe that is the reason people think it’s the best solution, but I like to find out why 🙂

[Wijnand]

That the noise floor in the dac would be the only thing that matters can’t be true in my opinion. I think the shape of the bits is an important factor as well. These bits are actually analog sine waves representing 1 and 0’s. When they are buffered they seem to keep the shape they are in. When we take away the connection to the dac and play the buffer from that point the sound will be as worse as it was. This is something we were trying to solve back in 2012 when I was a beta tester for the PS audio PWD2. They had built a buffer so the DAC would always play from the buffer and ethernet noise wouldn’t be a problem any longer, unfortunately it didn’t work.

[Wijnand]

About the Wifi extenders. As I mentioned I don’t use Wifi in the first place, because I lived near a 4G transmitter until I became hypersensitive to radiation. So I can’t use that. Besides this I think the lack of Wifi in my situation could be the reason I have trouble with my ethernet. As I mentioned, adding noise to my ethernet system prevents crystal sync. Probably the distortion of Wifi radiation could do that same trick.

Reviewing an ethernet system became very difficult, because what is happening. Is it the signal and the sound that became better due to a powersupply. Or is it the other way around is it the signal that became better and crystal sinc made the sound worse. Adding Wifi could make the signal worse but also unsinc crystals with the end result better sound. The question is what do we review when it comes to a certain balance.

[Author]

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