[Tobias]

Your delayed dark sound is really a mystery. It is stupid if I even try to go into what that could relate to and my brain would probably start hurting anyway. 😀

[Tobias]

I also like envisioning how we can “see” a holographic image, just re-created by pure sound. If one think about that, and the tolerances involved for our brain to re-create such a holographic imaging, then it is clear (to me) that our brain is amazing at compute sound based on timing. Otherwise this is not possible to recreate in our brain. Those timing tolerance is really amazing and makes sense to me if they are challenging to measure. Now this does of course not relate or explain your issue, but is more a way to illustrate why i think timing is incredible important as we convert from digital into analogue.

[Tobias]

Thanks for sharing. I will have to read that a few times and let is soak in 🙂

[Tobias]

I actually think that we are basically arriving at the same conclusion but maybe only articulating it differently or have some slight different thoughts on the root issue? I should say that Hans B is my only reference since i trust him :-).

Here is how i understand him, on a high level:

The noise (different types of noise) in the ground plane are according to Hans B causing the square wave to change shape from I_I to instead look like this \_/.  Hence the timing is off when converting to analogue, since the distance between those vertical lines are no-longer equal, The result is called jitter(?), in a DAC clock/dac context, but the actual cause of that jitter is the noise messing up those square waves, that no-longer is perfectly square.

The human hearing is exceptional at picking up those tiny timing related differences and the differences in timing are on pico second level, which we are not able to measure, yet.

Not sure why i write this down since i am not an expert… :-), but it felt nice to illustrate it in writing for myself.

Also, i am not claiming that you already “knew” about this. It is more to share how i think to see if it differs from your way.

[Tobias]

I read up a bit and i now understand that the sinewave is in fact the analogue part (ground plane?), from what i understand. Then i can see that it could make a difference and somehow influence the DAC performance.

[Tobias]

Hmm, thanks! In my mind, working with digital/technology my self, the sine waves “should” not matter as long as they remain readable as ones and zeros, which they do, as Alpha Audio also shown. There is never packet drops. The data is buffered before the DAC step so the sinewaves should be nullified anyway, i am thinking. Maybe i am misunderstanding your explanation but in my mind it has to do with noise :-), as you know i believe, and then the the core throttle must also remove noise some how?

[Tobias]

Do you think that ferrit setup is even reducing noise? I never really understood what it does. I thought it only was an affective shield but it is so effective in my setup that i question if it does even more?

[Tobias]

That´s crazy… Not for you, since you are used to this i guess. Not sure why i even try comment on this…:-) but are you sure it has anything to do with ethernet at all? My instinct want to think it is related to something else since the sound is getting “dark”? But i guess you are pretty dialed into this by now, and have drawn a lot of conclusions at this point.

[Tobias]

I just love that Ferrit core thing! Its amazing that no one have thought about this until now, or that it isn´t publicly known. The concept isn´t new, from what i understand, but used in other applications.

I love sharing something that i come across but this was the first time i felt that i didn´t want to share it (at first) because it is just to good to be true. (i had more expensive ethernet cables and this will upset the cable industry…)

[Tobias]

I guess people that goes for the Muon they are already very much invested in this whole noise thing so they are also not just plugging it into a random router, with a bad power supply? They are probably feeding it already with a decent quality ethernet signal, which makes it easier for the filter? (Here i am still assuming that it is all about the noise)

[Tobias]

Maybe you are guilty of bat ears? We all have the issue but only some can hear it (X-files theme song playing) 🙂

[Tobias]

I have read like a mad man on different forums for a couple of years now and i don´t think i have ever heard about that sort of delayed issue. Interesting! I can´t of course say anything about that since i believe you!

The good thing with keeping it simple, with the Muon Pro for example, is at least that it narrows down what the issue might be, hopefully 🙂

[Tobias]

I am with Jaap that additional clocks probably just changes the noise floor. It doesn´t make any sense that their actual function can impact the sound since there is a new Clock in the DAC that actually matters. Jitter don´t travel, from what i understand. It is just something that happens in the clocking part if there is noise involved to get those square waves out of shape. But that doesn´t travel from one clock to the other. It is nullified by the next clock/buffering, from what i understand. The clock theory, when used prior to the DAC, has always been a noise thing but since it is a clock people has always thought that it is about jitter/square waves and timing, that normally is associated with clocking.

That is my amateur summary or what i have managed to conclude  🙂

[Tobias]

Please check the reviews of the Muon Pro and talk to the Alpha guys about it. In the end of the Hans B video that i linked to he talks about how they tested this together (him and Alpha Audio) and concluded how amazing it is. I am not saying that it can´t be bettered but it does a lot for being a passive filter only, and is proven really hard to better.

Also, think about the new PS Audio Airlens, that apparently is really good. What is Airlens? It is just a gap of air, just like a wifi extender, to break the physical connection. At least that is how i understand it.

[Tobias]

They way i work is rather reading what people on the forum conclude, rather then testing everything my self.

If you hear person after person confirming something then i tend to believe that there must be something to it, if it makes sense also. After having watched Hans Beekhuyzens videos, many many times, and discussed his theories it all makes sense when you also see what hundreds of people are reporting on the forums, if you have Hans ideas in the back of your head while reading.

Everything suddenly makes sense if you only focus on noise and realize that the DAC is crazy sensitive to noise.

Obviously a WiFi extender can output a very low noise floor since a lot of people are abandoning expensive switches and other kind of gear and move towards a simpler setup with WiFi extenders. This is something that is very new, basically this year.

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