[Tobias]

Note that for the DAC it is only ones and zeros in different combinations that it works with. There is no way that one certain aspect of the sound can be impacted, if its not part of the recording/data itself, since all the DAC sees are ones and zeros and try to recreate to analogue as good as it can.

The digital part can only affect how precise the DAC can sound (depending on the noise) but not impact it actively to give a certain flavor/tonality of sound, based on some type of malfunction. The digital data is always perfect.

So, if the tonality changes and becomes dark, then that must be on the analogue side of the DAC conversion (in my mind) since there is nothing in the digital data that tells the DAC to sound dark suddenly.

It also doesn´t make sense in my mind that you suddenly get more noise into the DAC. Mostly because that usually won´t give a dark sound, from my experience at least. It would be another type of impact that we usually associate with noise (degraded DAC performance).

[Tobias]

Yes, i agree. Your delayed dark sound makes no sense in my mind.

The digital noise is rather associated with the opposite of “dark”, sort of :-).

 

[Tobias]

But playing things from memory equals noise, processing noise, inside the DAC it self. You don´t want any processing going on unless you are able to separate that noise before the DAC step. This is what the Grimm Audio guys understand and are able to do. Even if they do up sampling inside their MU2 player they are still able to make sure that the signal is extremely clean when converted to analogue, which is very hard and costly.

[Tobias]

But doesn´t it makes sense to you also that:

Regardless how the digital data arrives to the DAC it will be nullified in the DAC´s buffer. Here it will buffer the incoming stream and re-build/re-clock the signal again and send it to the analogue conversion step.

So basically it will not matter what the bits looks like since it will be nullified in the buffer and re-recreated in the DAC anyway.

The impossible task is to stop noise hitting that DAC clock though… No-one has ever been able to send a totally clean signal since it is of-course impossible since there is electronics involved.

 

 

[Tobias]

But the beauty with digital is that it is only about 0 and 1, which makes it perfect in all conditions.

There are no such components involved like you are talking about. Digital is a genius invention in that it can´t be almost perfect, not even in an audio context.

[Tobias]

Yes, i believe this is the same things as Hans B is talking about when he says that it starts looking like this \_/ instead of having vertical lines. This is caused by noise hitting the DAC clock, from how i understand him.

What people has never understood is how incredible sensitive this is. When we do stuff, prior to the DAC, we are basically just modulating the noise and since the DAC is incredible sensitive it reacts even if you only insert another cable, or add an addtional clock, way before in the signal chain since the noise profile changed just a tiny bit.

[Tobias]

True, i can´t explain if it gets worse if the ferrit cores are early in the signal chain.

[Tobias]

I know this will probably not mean much for you, since people say a lot about different things, but i have to share my honest thought on your write up.

For me, that goes against everything i know about digital. I know people have probably said this 100 times to you but digital is always perfect. What arrives to your dac is always perfect. Either it arrives 100% perfect or it doesn´t arrive at all. If it doesn´t then you get stutter, or it doesn´t work at all.

The only thing that matter is the performance of the DAC, its clock and the conversion process. That is where it has to be perfect conditions for that processing to run perfect at the limit of what the DAC is capable of to output its best analogue signal. What goes on before that is actually irrelevant.

Noise does however degrade the dac/clock performance, even crazy low amount of noise, so that it can´t convert the signal as well as it is capable of. We need to stop that noise which people has tried for many years even if looking for other root issues as well.

Now, i am not saying that this will maybe change your mind, since people are always saying a lot of things 🙂 . But this is my honest opinion at least.

[Tobias]

Thanks for sharing.

The reason we can´t use the WiFi reciever in our equipment is that we don´t want an active antenna in our HiFi equipment and have data processing going on to convert that WiFi signal = noise.

By separating the WiFi outside of our HiFi equipment into a device that can output a clean signal it is then enough to clean up that signal with the ferrit cores.

The reason the ferrit cores are not working in other places, i believe, is that you then add electronics (noise) after them. The ferrit core need to sit right before the streamer since the output from that cable is really clean.

[Tobias]

Not sure what a PC streamer means exactly but now “knowing” you i guess it is some sort of well built Rasbarry Pi, with ultra capacitor conditioners and stuff to keep a low internal noise floor?

My focus lies solely on making sure that the streamer has the lowest possible internal noise floor, when in operation, so that it can output the same to the DAC. At the moment i don´t even have a fancy audio streamer my self… I only run the Yamaha WXC-50 which is limited in its own internal noise floor, i assume.

So basically, whatever i connect to that streamer needs to have the lowest possible noise floor output, to keep the streamers noise floor as close to its own ideal noise floor as possible.

In my case it means that i only connect the WiFi extender, with battery power, to my streamer, using the ferrit core cable. Nothing else is connect to the streamer inputs.

That was an attempt to answer your question 🙂

[Tobias]

Thanks for sharing again!

What is that 100% copper instead of CCA? Can i buy that or is it DIY only?

Since i am convinced that it is all about noise then I am thinking that if you can have an extremely low noise floor early in the signal chain (as the WR902AC V4 Wifi extender seem to have when paired with really clean power) then there is no need to add additional electronics and power supply, in that particular combination. But i haven´t of course tested all possible combinations, like yours for example, :-).

[Tobias]

wow, thanks for that detailed answer!

[Tobias]

In general, do you agree that switch mode PS are better in the digital domain then when analogue is involved, like a DAC, as Alpha Audio is suggesting? I know that very good linear ps (like your Farad) is maybe even better, also in the digital domain, but do you agree that there seem to be a speed factor involved in the digital domain, that is often easier to achieve in switch mode power supplies, from what i read?

[Tobias]

Sorry for stating the obvious :-). Very cool, thanks for sharing!

[Tobias]

Yes, but it actually is your DAC clock that you hear still, since the data is buffered in the DAC before it is clocked again in your DAC.

I am fairly positive (if i may be a bit offensive) that this clock lowers the noise output of the switch, for some reason.

[Auteur]

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